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Duty Rota Availability - Jan to March 2010

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:55 pm
by Pete
Greetings folks,

In case some of you didn't get my email, please see the text below:

Dear all,

Further to decisions made at the Instructors meeting of 28th November 2009, a new duty rota is to be created, with the aim of being implemented in the New Year.
The rota will be slightly different from those previously published. There will be three duty roles per day; Duty Instructor, Duty Back-seater and Duty Pilot. The roles of the Duty Instructor and Duty Pilot remain the same as previously, primarily ground based supervision and organisation. The Duty Back-seater role is fairly self explanatory, but essentially is intended to ensure there is at least one additional instructor available on a flying day.

The club members who will be expected to perform the roles are as follows:

Duty Instructor - all Full Cats
Duty Back-seater - all Ass Cats & BI's
Duty Pilot - all club members of solo standard and above

In order to ensure the list is as useful and achievable as possible, I need to know as far as practicable what days people are unavailabe for. The list is currently being drawn up for January, February and, possibly March. Kindly reply and let me know which of the dates you definitely cannot make:

January -
2/3rd, 9/10th, 16/17th, 23/24th, 30/31st
February -
6/7th, 13/14th, 20/21st, 27/28th
March -
6/7th, 13/14th, 20/21st, 27/28th

Please note, swaps further down the line are of course possible, should other commitments pop up.

I would be grateful if all pilots/instructors could get this information to me as soon as possible, so I can have the list ready for the New Year.

If you have any questions or queries, feel free to throw them my way.

Thanks in anticipation,

Pete Davey


The rota is currently in production, but can only be improved with additional information from yourselves. If you know a day you cannot do, please let me know.

Re: Duty Rota Availability - Jan to March 2010

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:22 pm
by Alex
Questions to open up some debate for the group...... debate is gooood.....

1) what is the sanction for repeated no-show's on your duty day
2) how many no-shows incur a sanction
3) as you have written it it suggests that all club members, including all instructors, will be eligible for duty pilot rota - Is that your intention?
4) on numerous days last year there was more instructors than normal pilots on the airfield at any one time - how will this new rota deal with that eventuality?
5) why did this have to be decided upon at an instructors meeting and not at the AGM where the solo pilots could have had some input, or at a committee meeting where some of the committee members are non-instructors?


Pete, Please dont put me down for the weekends of 13/14th and 20/21st feb

Re: Duty Rota Availability - Jan to March 2010

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:46 pm
by Nemadog
Great idea, unfortunately only know my work schedule a week in advance. Put me down for when you like and will be there if i can :lol:

Re: Duty Rota Availability - Jan to March 2010

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:49 am
by ColinD
It was initially discussed at an instructors meeting that I called for some flight safety issues and this rosta was the outcome. I am not trying to keep things secret from anyone and I am more than willing to discuss it as it evolves, for now I would like to get some sort of duty list in place (which is beter than the nothing at the moment)

Re: Duty Rota Availability - Jan to March 2010

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:18 am
by Pete
Morning Alex,

Agree, debate is good, and please understand this is not a finalised system. At the moment, I am trying to get some sort of rota together, which as CD says, is better than the current naff all we have. From that base, a system can evolve which will hopefully be fit for purpose over time.

Answers, as far as I can give them below:

Alex wrote:Questions to open up some debate for the group...... debate is gooood.....

1) what is the sanction for repeated no-show's on your duty day
2) how many no-shows incur a sanction
3) as you have written it it suggests that all club members, including all instructors, will be eligible for duty pilot rota - Is that your intention?
4) on numerous days last year there was more instructors than normal pilots on the airfield at any one time - how will this new rota deal with that eventuality?
5) why did this have to be decided upon at an instructors meeting and not at the AGM where the solo pilots could have had some input, or at a committee meeting where some of the committee members are non-instructors?


1) & 2) Sanctions were not discussed at the Instructors meeting, and I personally don't think that they should be. Sanctions on club members should be decided by the club membership, or at least the Committee. I'm not entirely sure what sanctions could be imposed, without creating something of an atmosphere of pressure amongst club members (my wishy washy liberal view anyway!). Of course, the intention of asking for dates people can't make is to try to minimise no-shows. A list that starts off with people's availability already in mind is going to be streaks ahead of something published at random. Hopefully, if the list is published in enough time, people will be aware of their duty days, and will attend for them. Naturally, I'm sure some anomalies will crop up...

3) Yes, all club members above solo level, including instructors are on the Duty Pilot rota. Given the smaller number of full cats, it may be that these are excused duty pilot . Again, something to consider as the list evolves.

4) I'm not quite sure what there is to deal with? The rota aims to ensure that there is a full cat and at least one other instructor present on a flying day. If more turn up, that can't be a bad thing. We're trying to increase instructor participation, not reduce it!

5) As CD said, the issue was raised as a flight safety one, concerning an instructor (and member) light day recently. The discussion covered several topics relating to this problem, and one of them was a duty rota. The rota's most important focus is ensuring there is at least one flying authorising instructor present on the day, therefore the best place to discuss it would appear to be an Instructors meeting. Again, as CD said, there was no intention of hiding this from the membership or slipping it in without reference to anyone. I imagine if a committee meeting had come first, the same topic would have been brought up. I believe you would be perfectly entitled to raise it in AOB at the AGM for further discussion.

The essentials are, it is not yet a fully evolved system. Once I have as much info from the members as possible, a list can be published, and we go from there.

Thanks for your dates.

Cheers,

Pete

Re: Duty Rota Availability - Jan to March 2010

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:21 am
by Pete
Nemadog wrote:Great idea, unfortunately only know my work schedule a week in advance. Put me down for when you like and will be there if i can :lol:


No worries Ray, I figured you might be a tricky one!

Re: Duty Rota Availability - Jan to March 2010

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:47 pm
by Alex
Topic 1+2 - We had a duty pilot and duty instructors rota before with no sanction for no-show and lets be kind to it, It was not adhered to particularly well.... so what makes the instructors committee think that this new rota will make any difference? I think it is admirable that you (pete) are attempting to accommodate everyones unavailability, however I would contend that if the onus was on the individual to cover their duty if they were unavailable then it would be more likely to get done if they knew there was a sanction. A possible sanction would be the prevention of flying P1 until the individual has paid pack their duty days. Of course that would require a culture change at the launch point and a stout duty pilot. I am usually in favor of including a stick to ensure the carrot is eaten if the donkey refuses to eat its greens.

Topic 3 - I am pleased by this statement.

Topic 4 - If Topic 3 is true, I can only agree with you pete.

Topic 5 - I would contend that a duty pilots list is not a flight safety issue, a duty instructors rota is obviously completely within the scope of the instructors committee as they see fit, but as the duty pilots are held responsible by the club and the instructors committee is held to account by the CFI who holds a post on the Full Committee. Isn't the correct process for the CFI to propose the need for a Duty pilot rota for the membership as an agenda item within a Full Committee meeting. I agree with your point pete that the correct place to discuss flight safety and instructing is within your instructors meeting, but I also would expect that if the full committee was to start to dictate instructing policy this would not be allowed by the CFI!
Now having said that, the meeting the instructors held (as we have a large committee and a small membership) was probably quorate for a full committee meeting, and I can easily see that it would be easy, with the best intentions of the club in mind, to have slid over and cover the duty pilots, but is this conceptually 'correct?'

Re: Duty Rota Availability - Jan to March 2010

PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:45 am
by ColinD
Alex

Lets not get into an arse kicking contest here, I am happy to discuss this at the weekend

Re: Duty Rota Availability - Jan to March 2010

PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:28 am
by PeterP
Had to look again at the page header, for one moment I thought I had stumbled onto the Hus Bos forum! I think the general consensus within the regular (those that turn up nearly every weekend) members is to have a rota, at least this will spread the burden of running the field from the few who do turn up.

Re: Duty Rota Availability - Jan to March 2010

PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:05 pm
by IanD
I'm sorry for being really slow on the uptake here but.....
as has already been mentioned, we already had a duty pilot rota so why should this need to go in front of anyone for approval?
As the duty instructor rota was discussed at the instructors meeting (which would appear to be the relevant forum as it concerns instructors) why should that need approving elsewhere?
As for no shows, sometimes sh1t happens and the best laid plans go to the wall. I for one am in a job where I could be ordered in on an operational emergency with no notice. Surely it's about working co-operatively and everyone doing their best like it's always been.

Ian